An open discussion of any and all topics surrounding the service of legal process in the State of Washington.http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/en-usMon, 9 Jan 2012 07:55:45 PM -0700 Mon, 9 Jan 2012 07:55:45 PM -0700 Robin Mullins Illinois Gets Serious About Assault on Process Servers
Thank you for reaching out.]]>
Thank you for reaching out.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/illinois-gets-serious-about-assault-on-process-servers.htm?opendocument&comments#01092012075545PMRMU6MT.htm Sat, 7 Jan 2012 01:16:02 PM -0500 Greg K. Illinois Gets Serious About Assault on Process Servers
But since we're writing about "ruminations," I'll personally ruminate that it was the Governor's "off the cuff", quizzical look of incredulity and genuine concern that struck me as the most surreal moments. The thrice asked question from the Governor and his staff was, "why haven't we done this long before now?"

Now think about his question and frowning look of exasperation for a moment. This singular IL. state victory should hopefully open up the flood gates for this profession to immediately introduce similar bills across America. The Governor's comments spoke volumes that process servers are often some of the most overlooked and unappreciated professions of the legal support services professions. The Governor's comments conveyed to me that he thought it was time Process Severs finally deserved some appreciation and safety while doing their jobs too.

I wonder which of us will warrant this new law's first legal test? Will it decrease the assaults against process servers? I doubt it. Will it increase the penalties after assaults have already been committed? Yes. So what's actually changed for process server safety in IL.? Indubitably, not much, unfortunately.

But it was at the Governor's mansion that it was affirmed to me that someone in the highest position of state authority finally acknowledged that our profession IS deserving of distinction and protection most commonly afforded to only state and federal employees.

Thank you ADSAI and ILAPPS and voting members for allowing me to be part of that experience. I encourage everyone to get involved in their state organizations to volunteer for legislative duty. It's well worth the time and effort to push this kind of positive agenda through the legal process for a change rather than always fighting adverse legislation of necessity. We of ILAPPS challenges you to roll your sleeves up and introduce this bill in all states.

Good luck.]]>
But since we're writing about "ruminations," I'll personally ruminate that it was the Governor's "off the cuff", quizzical look of incredulity and genuine concern that struck me as the most surreal moments. The thrice asked question from the Governor and his staff was, "why haven't we done this long before now?"

Now think about his question and frowning look of exasperation for a moment. This singular IL. state victory should hopefully open up the flood gates for this profession to immediately introduce similar bills across America. The Governor's comments spoke volumes that process servers are often some of the most overlooked and unappreciated professions of the legal support services professions. The Governor's comments conveyed to me that he thought it was time Process Severs finally deserved some appreciation and safety while doing their jobs too.

I wonder which of us will warrant this new law's first legal test? Will it decrease the assaults against process servers? I doubt it. Will it increase the penalties after assaults have already been committed? Yes. So what's actually changed for process server safety in IL.? Indubitably, not much, unfortunately.

But it was at the Governor's mansion that it was affirmed to me that someone in the highest position of state authority finally acknowledged that our profession IS deserving of distinction and protection most commonly afforded to only state and federal employees.

Thank you ADSAI and ILAPPS and voting members for allowing me to be part of that experience. I encourage everyone to get involved in their state organizations to volunteer for legislative duty. It's well worth the time and effort to push this kind of positive agenda through the legal process for a change rather than always fighting adverse legislation of necessity. We of ILAPPS challenges you to roll your sleeves up and introduce this bill in all states.

Good luck.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/illinois-gets-serious-about-assault-on-process-servers.htm?opendocument&comments#01072012011602PMDOMQLK.htm Thu, 20 Oct 2011 09:40:00 PM -0500 Cammy The Power of the Signature - From the Bellingham Herald http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/the-power-of-the-signature.htm?opendocument&comments#10202011094000PMDOM563.htm Thu, 20 Oct 2011 09:38:25 PM -0500 Cammy The Power of the Signature - From the Bellingham Herald
I can't speak for everybody, and it seems that there's an agenda in the works, but I haven't found this industry to be a dirty, filthy, a profession filled with dishonesty, and unethical people.

Every segment of society is filled with the people who make poor decisions and worse. It matters not, whether they are public officials, officers, pastors/priests, or politicians. And an employer or a government agency cannot screen for corruption as those who are corrupt, conceal that corruption. You can do background checks, sure. Nearly all companies do now days anyways. Though, the state limits those to 10 years for employment and licensing purposes and even if they didn't, in my opinion, its not the people who have had an incident in their past (stealing a pack of cigarettes when they were 18 or the like), that are the problem.

The problem is the ones that haven't been caught yet, as they are the ones that you undoubtedly will not second guess. Which of course, is not screenable and unmanageable by its very nature.

The sewer services will always be there. And honestly, I think that the business model of most companies is the problem.

Servers and business owners, I think, need to increase their fees across the board and convert from the perception that they must succeed in personal service in order to keep the client. You're just simply not going to be able to get every single one. And the fact that somebody is dodging and willfully evading service of process, is hardly justification to turn it into a mission impossible scenario unless the client is willing to authorize hourly rates for stake out services.

I think that this is especially true for clients that place large volumes of business each month.

I received a telephone call from a collection agency the other day inquiring about using our services. We had a fairly long conversation and discussed all the typical topics and points of interest or concern that you would expect in a sales call of this nature.

However, we hit a stone wall when it came to fees. And that is quite all right with me.

She indicated that their current service provider charges $40.00 per serve and that they treat her very well. She was sketchy on the volume of business placed each month but indicated that it would be somewhere between 10 and 40 or so and more likely than not, it would have been on the lower side of that estimate.

I quoted her a rate that she thought was too high, and even though we provide our clients with additional benefits in the proof of service that I will not elaborate on here, there was no chance of winning her business unless we were willing to take on each serve at a rate that in my opinion, is inoperable.

It comes down to the bottom line. You can look at a volume account on a monthly basis and assess whether or not you THINK you can do it for such a low rate. However, your margin is very low, the server's margin is low, and its likely that the volume itself may not make up the difference if you end up making three attempts on several of them. Especially, if you have a few that are in no-mans-land.

It clearly depends on how each company operates, but even without splitting the fee in the case of a contractor situation, lets just take the approach that an employee or owner will be doing the serves.

So, $40.00 minus 36% for Uncle Sam, minus .080 for State B&O, minus whatever your city B&O rate is, and suddenly, that $40.00 proposition is in serious question with regard to sustainability.

Then you must consider your fuel costs at nearly $4.00 a gallon and that must be prepared to make at least three attempts at service to establish a level of diligence that will be accepted by the courts and court rules of civil procedure. Hmmm.... you better get the old 10 speed out of the closet or have a moped to make this work.

I guess my point is, that with the rates being so competitive and everybody consistently undercutting each other, sewer serves are not only more likely, they are out right probable.

It doesn't matter who the person is, if they are posed with the proposition of losing money and not eating, there is the potential to 'fudge,' things a bit.

One only needs to take a look at what happened in New York. Thousands of affidavits indicated service was effected on people who had not resided in New York for years.

I think our colleagues, employee's, contractors, and competitors, alike, all need to re-evaluate their business model.

I don't think their should ever be a fear of telling your client that you weren't able to serve somebody. In fact, in many cases, a revaluation of where service was attempted and other information leads to a successful serve at a different address or in a different manner.

Additionally, I think we all need to move past the $40.00 - $75.00 per serve mark. Its almost embarrassing to hear somebody suggest such a fee structure.

That kind of a fee structure leads to servers indicating that they've made more attempts than they have, performing questionable serves, and perhaps even falsification of facts on a proof.

As far as information sharing, well, that's skip tracing in its original, pre-database form. There never used to be all of these data collection companies or the databases they've created and sold.

Contacts at all levels and in all forms, paid or unpaid, has always existed since the beginning of time and always will. I question the motivation of a process server in trying to obtain the employment information, I think their business model is incorrect if they are doing that for compensation in that capacity. However, this occurs in every industry and always will.

I'm not advocating for that position. I'm just pointing out the reality of it situation.]]>
I can't speak for everybody, and it seems that there's an agenda in the works, but I haven't found this industry to be a dirty, filthy, a profession filled with dishonesty, and unethical people.

Every segment of society is filled with the people who make poor decisions and worse. It matters not, whether they are public officials, officers, pastors/priests, or politicians. And an employer or a government agency cannot screen for corruption as those who are corrupt, conceal that corruption. You can do background checks, sure. Nearly all companies do now days anyways. Though, the state limits those to 10 years for employment and licensing purposes and even if they didn't, in my opinion, its not the people who have had an incident in their past (stealing a pack of cigarettes when they were 18 or the like), that are the problem.

The problem is the ones that haven't been caught yet, as they are the ones that you undoubtedly will not second guess. Which of course, is not screenable and unmanageable by its very nature.

The sewer services will always be there. And honestly, I think that the business model of most companies is the problem.

Servers and business owners, I think, need to increase their fees across the board and convert from the perception that they must succeed in personal service in order to keep the client. You're just simply not going to be able to get every single one. And the fact that somebody is dodging and willfully evading service of process, is hardly justification to turn it into a mission impossible scenario unless the client is willing to authorize hourly rates for stake out services.

I think that this is especially true for clients that place large volumes of business each month.

I received a telephone call from a collection agency the other day inquiring about using our services. We had a fairly long conversation and discussed all the typical topics and points of interest or concern that you would expect in a sales call of this nature.

However, we hit a stone wall when it came to fees. And that is quite all right with me.

She indicated that their current service provider charges $40.00 per serve and that they treat her very well. She was sketchy on the volume of business placed each month but indicated that it would be somewhere between 10 and 40 or so and more likely than not, it would have been on the lower side of that estimate.

I quoted her a rate that she thought was too high, and even though we provide our clients with additional benefits in the proof of service that I will not elaborate on here, there was no chance of winning her business unless we were willing to take on each serve at a rate that in my opinion, is inoperable.

It comes down to the bottom line. You can look at a volume account on a monthly basis and assess whether or not you THINK you can do it for such a low rate. However, your margin is very low, the server's margin is low, and its likely that the volume itself may not make up the difference if you end up making three attempts on several of them. Especially, if you have a few that are in no-mans-land.

It clearly depends on how each company operates, but even without splitting the fee in the case of a contractor situation, lets just take the approach that an employee or owner will be doing the serves.

So, $40.00 minus 36% for Uncle Sam, minus .080 for State B&O, minus whatever your city B&O rate is, and suddenly, that $40.00 proposition is in serious question with regard to sustainability.

Then you must consider your fuel costs at nearly $4.00 a gallon and that must be prepared to make at least three attempts at service to establish a level of diligence that will be accepted by the courts and court rules of civil procedure. Hmmm.... you better get the old 10 speed out of the closet or have a moped to make this work.

I guess my point is, that with the rates being so competitive and everybody consistently undercutting each other, sewer serves are not only more likely, they are out right probable.

It doesn't matter who the person is, if they are posed with the proposition of losing money and not eating, there is the potential to 'fudge,' things a bit.

One only needs to take a look at what happened in New York. Thousands of affidavits indicated service was effected on people who had not resided in New York for years.

I think our colleagues, employee's, contractors, and competitors, alike, all need to re-evaluate their business model.

I don't think their should ever be a fear of telling your client that you weren't able to serve somebody. In fact, in many cases, a revaluation of where service was attempted and other information leads to a successful serve at a different address or in a different manner.

Additionally, I think we all need to move past the $40.00 - $75.00 per serve mark. Its almost embarrassing to hear somebody suggest such a fee structure.

That kind of a fee structure leads to servers indicating that they've made more attempts than they have, performing questionable serves, and perhaps even falsification of facts on a proof.

As far as information sharing, well, that's skip tracing in its original, pre-database form. There never used to be all of these data collection companies or the databases they've created and sold.

Contacts at all levels and in all forms, paid or unpaid, has always existed since the beginning of time and always will. I question the motivation of a process server in trying to obtain the employment information, I think their business model is incorrect if they are doing that for compensation in that capacity. However, this occurs in every industry and always will.

I'm not advocating for that position. I'm just pointing out the reality of it situation.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/the-power-of-the-signature.htm?opendocument&comments#10202011093825PMDOM553.htm Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:28:37 PM -0500 Cammy Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
In industry, regardless of the business field or model, those associations are created and operated by companies or individuals working or practicing in the industry that the association is purportedly representing. Usually, their created, organized, and funded by the largest companies in any given industry.

They are usually lead by the owners, executives, or other leaders, from those large companies. The legislation they lobby for and the modes in which they operate, are always with the interest of the hierarchy first and others, including its membership, secondarily.

To be specific, industry associations are always lead by your competitors.

One only needs to take a glance at the applications for membership for most of these associations to realize that the association requires all of the confidential information that a company or proprietor would never want their competitors to have. Not all do this, but most do. Information that is proprietary in nature and if a competitor stole from you would constitute a criminal act of corporate espionage.

Yet, people will gladly surrender such confidential information in exchange for a link to their website, a quarterly newsletter, and the authorization to use the corporate logo of the association on their website or other marketing materials.

It's a rather bizarre concept when analyzed, but that's where the associations succeed. Most owners and operators never evaluate it under such context or question an organization that has titled itself an association of the field that they operate in.

Furthermore, most associations do not require the approval of a "board" or member panel to join. Those that do require such approval, create one more barrier between themselves and their market base, which, is supposed to be their commercial counter-parts and colleagues.

That's one more factor that contributes to the interpretation of associations being a "good 'ol boys club," and similar. Not to mention, that in our 'free,' American society, the suggestion of an "approval process," for membership in an organization that by its very title suggests that it represents all persons working in its business field, and thereby intuitively suggests that all non-members may not be successful or trustworthy businesses, upstanding professionals or individuals, is not only expressive of a megalomaniacal group ideology, and insulting when analyzed, but it's just a bad business/association policy.

One only need take a look at the struggles of the BBB over the years to understand that such a business model really only works with new business owners who have relatively no experience and feel that membership is necessitated to enter into commerce and large established businesses whose customer base has a relatively low likelihood of filing complaints and potentially harming their business reputation.

Additionally, for those who have been running their companies for 30 years or so and are now nearing retirement, the cost and the time may not be of issue.

However, for the new business owner and the small business owner *(which comprises the vast majority of process servers), the cost of membership weighed against lead generation, sales, and/or growth, doesn't bode well for most associations. Any time requirements make it that much less attractive.

In this industry, for example, companies such as Serve Now are more likely to produce measurable sales and therefore provide growth to a small business, than an "association," of any kind.

In my experience in executive management and ownership, I've subscribed to various associations over the years to only come to the same conclusion at the end of the year and in some cases, after a few years.

Which is: Joining the clubs, never equates to growth, offers benefits that outweigh their costs, and provides no measurable .

One must always remember, that the selling point of the association is that their business customers are able to say to its prospects and customers, "look, we're a member of the association." That's really it.

Relatively few read the spam, care for the newsletters, and desire to pursue power by gaining a position of status with an organization, association, or other institution. Those that do are always the subject of reasonable questioning and future scrutiny depending on what an association does and does not do, purportedly, on behalf of all individuals and companies in their field.

Frankly, we're in business to be in business. If we wanted to be politicians, we'd run for office.

For the member of the association, it is a moot issue. While a business may desire to cover their webpage or front door to their office with little logo's of the Chamber of Commerce, and the other 50 associations that are out there, it doesn't translate into new sales.

Nor does it add a level of prestige and honor.

There is no ROI. Which means that it's a bad investment. Sure you get your name and contact information on a website. Though, that just translates into a "paid link," (frowned upon by Google and Bing). Which, if that's the goal, can be obtained freely, and at worst, much, much, cheaper.

There is the spam, newsletter, and the promises of state and national domination of industry by the associations. Any time an industry association attempts to compel government to modify its policies and laws, they're actions rarely help the citizens, ease financial expenditures of citizens, business or government, and in large part, contribute to many of the problems and corruption in government that we are all dealing with today.

Having lobbyists attempt to add more bureaucracy, create more regulations, add more laws, create a new licensing division, and having an association around just to do that, isn't appealing at all.

In fact, any individual interested in a prosperous business would and should oppose the proposition of new regulation and be at odds with any proposal for new licensing fees and processes. We're not handing out social security cards, managing bank accounts (which requires no license I might add), practicing law, operating on a patient, selling stocks, preparing tax returns, cremating bodies, or selling body parts.

We simply deliver documentation to various people at various places, and do so as unbiased, uninvolved, third parties. Our deliveries don't even constitute a HAZMAT classification. We're even exempt from the DOT's requirement for couriers to have commercial insurance.

That's it. It's pretty simple. Regardless of what some ego's may have convinced themselves of, this profession has never required a doctorate's degree to enter into, and that's for a reason. We're not officers of the law. We're not public employees. With few exceptions, everything we handle is public record and that which isn't, is generally pretty boring in nature and doesn't possess any Top Secret information that is so confidential we should require FBI approval simply to be near it.

With regard to legislation, I haven't read any reference to legislation that has passed or is proposed, that had or offers any real substance or longevity of effect to process servers, messengers in general, or even for private investigators.

With regard to the trespassing, that didn't change anything other than create an "Affirmative Defense." Which, as a matter of law, has little significance. Trespassing is trespassing. The incident that caused the topic to be debated was most likely a bad arrest and charge. Though, we don't have law enforcement powers. Nobody serving papers should ever interpret themselves to be entitled to hop fences, sneak around in people's back yards, or otherwise do that which any other citizen is prohibited from doing by law. If there's a no trespassing sign, it's reasonable to conclude that you should be cautious because the owner of the property is clearly cautious and may be apprehensive, or worse.

All the affirmative defense does is provide you the ability to explain to a court or jury why you broke the law, and hope that they decide to let you off the hook because of your explanation.

That in no way bars you from facing arrest, charges, or conviction. Any assertion to the contrary is preposterous. If you break the law as a process server, you may be held accountable for your actions just as any other citizen. We do not have immunity.

Then there's the prohibition on Sundays and court holidays. I suppose the prohibition was a little inconvenient at times. Aside from the ridiculous government holidays, Thanksgiving and Christmas is always a time when you'd expect to catch people at home.

However, I don't know how many process servers spend their holidays away from their family so that they can serve papers and more so, I seriously question the numbers of successful serves on the holidays as many aren't home on the holidays.

Even if every subject of the serve stayed home on the holidays just to accept service, how much of a difference does the few days a year equate to at the end of the year? Maybe a few more dollars if you're working on a contingency fee, (which is nearly unheard of).

There's the Auto Tort thing. That's mind boggling in and of itself. It's a logical adjustment to the way the law sat, however, who does it benefit? Not process servers.

It benefits the insurance companies, bonding companies, perhaps collection agencies, general public, and lawyers. So, bravo. That is certainly worthy of a pat on the back and because of its shear and obvious logic and simplicity, it undoubtedly gained the support and approval of its reviewers. Most likely the bar association for that matter.

Though, it's hardly an accomplishment that creates any real draw to an association and one that process servers shrug at, as it didn't translate into a tangible difference to them monetarily or regulatorally.

Sure, the border thing. Yeah, there's a great idea (cough, cough, choke). In the State of Washington, with few regional exceptions, the only areas that are commercially effected by an open border or closed border status, is Vancouver and Spokane. One could argue that Spokane really isn't effected at all, as the population of Western Idaho along the Washington border currently sits at about 18 humans, 24 hawks, 2 crows, a coyote, and 800 rattle snakes.

This was retaliatory legislation that arose from Oregon having a closed border and the two local businesses registered with the WSPSA, being concerned about an estimated amount of business that they may be losing to Oregon process servers.

Both states are wrong in this instance and the concept of a closed border being beneficial for either state is lacking in merit. The closed border situation effects the independent operator (the sole proprietor and the ma' and pa') much more than the medium sized businesses and larger companies, as the individual is dependent upon doing all of the serves themselves. Whereas the larger companies simply hire Oregon contractors to do their Oregon serves, and Oregon companies hire Washington contractors to do their Washington serves.

Which makes the whole issue moot. As its going to business will be business as usual regardless. In nearly every instance of commerce, closed borders have failed to benefit the state imposing such restrictions. In many cases, increasing costs to consumers and businesses, and causing bordering states to pass reflective legislation, thereby strengthening the other states position and reducing the likelihood of the first state reconsidering its position and removing its prohibitive restrictions legislatively.

Other than that, what do we have. Hmmm...

An 'association,' that requires approval to join.

An 'association' that charges a membership fee (one more bill to pay) and offers nothing of measurable significance.

An 'association' that desires an expansion of the court system or of a state agency to implement a new licensing system for process servers (one more bill to pay).

An 'association' that wants everybody to pay the government to be able to deliver paperwork.

An 'association' that clearly is ran by the largest companies in the state and our competitors.

An 'association' that seems to be out of touch with the small business operator as the association desires and unregulated business (for a reason), to become regulated. Therefore, costing our state more, costing our businesses more, costing our employees and contractors more, expanding government personnel and processes and costing not only our state government more money by doing so, but the citizens of the state as well. And the support such a narrow-minded proposal in the worst economic crisis in our state history, and the second worst in our nation's history.

I don't think I will be joining any time soon. And now that it's been disclosed that there's less then twelve people or so in the entire state who have joined, I don't think there's anything to consider. A business that has a 12 person or less member count, is out of business. Period.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see the association going anywhere. I don't think the old dogs that run it along with their large companies, are going to let the potential power of having an association slip through their fingers. They'll keep it going so that they can tinker here and there.

As for the rest of us, I think a majority of us are focused on trying to meet our goals for tomorrow, the week, and hopefully makes ends meet by the end of the month.]]>
In industry, regardless of the business field or model, those associations are created and operated by companies or individuals working or practicing in the industry that the association is purportedly representing. Usually, their created, organized, and funded by the largest companies in any given industry.

They are usually lead by the owners, executives, or other leaders, from those large companies. The legislation they lobby for and the modes in which they operate, are always with the interest of the hierarchy first and others, including its membership, secondarily.

To be specific, industry associations are always lead by your competitors.

One only needs to take a glance at the applications for membership for most of these associations to realize that the association requires all of the confidential information that a company or proprietor would never want their competitors to have. Not all do this, but most do. Information that is proprietary in nature and if a competitor stole from you would constitute a criminal act of corporate espionage.

Yet, people will gladly surrender such confidential information in exchange for a link to their website, a quarterly newsletter, and the authorization to use the corporate logo of the association on their website or other marketing materials.

It's a rather bizarre concept when analyzed, but that's where the associations succeed. Most owners and operators never evaluate it under such context or question an organization that has titled itself an association of the field that they operate in.

Furthermore, most associations do not require the approval of a "board" or member panel to join. Those that do require such approval, create one more barrier between themselves and their market base, which, is supposed to be their commercial counter-parts and colleagues.

That's one more factor that contributes to the interpretation of associations being a "good 'ol boys club," and similar. Not to mention, that in our 'free,' American society, the suggestion of an "approval process," for membership in an organization that by its very title suggests that it represents all persons working in its business field, and thereby intuitively suggests that all non-members may not be successful or trustworthy businesses, upstanding professionals or individuals, is not only expressive of a megalomaniacal group ideology, and insulting when analyzed, but it's just a bad business/association policy.

One only need take a look at the struggles of the BBB over the years to understand that such a business model really only works with new business owners who have relatively no experience and feel that membership is necessitated to enter into commerce and large established businesses whose customer base has a relatively low likelihood of filing complaints and potentially harming their business reputation.

Additionally, for those who have been running their companies for 30 years or so and are now nearing retirement, the cost and the time may not be of issue.

However, for the new business owner and the small business owner *(which comprises the vast majority of process servers), the cost of membership weighed against lead generation, sales, and/or growth, doesn't bode well for most associations. Any time requirements make it that much less attractive.

In this industry, for example, companies such as Serve Now are more likely to produce measurable sales and therefore provide growth to a small business, than an "association," of any kind.

In my experience in executive management and ownership, I've subscribed to various associations over the years to only come to the same conclusion at the end of the year and in some cases, after a few years.

Which is: Joining the clubs, never equates to growth, offers benefits that outweigh their costs, and provides no measurable .

One must always remember, that the selling point of the association is that their business customers are able to say to its prospects and customers, "look, we're a member of the association." That's really it.

Relatively few read the spam, care for the newsletters, and desire to pursue power by gaining a position of status with an organization, association, or other institution. Those that do are always the subject of reasonable questioning and future scrutiny depending on what an association does and does not do, purportedly, on behalf of all individuals and companies in their field.

Frankly, we're in business to be in business. If we wanted to be politicians, we'd run for office.

For the member of the association, it is a moot issue. While a business may desire to cover their webpage or front door to their office with little logo's of the Chamber of Commerce, and the other 50 associations that are out there, it doesn't translate into new sales.

Nor does it add a level of prestige and honor.

There is no ROI. Which means that it's a bad investment. Sure you get your name and contact information on a website. Though, that just translates into a "paid link," (frowned upon by Google and Bing). Which, if that's the goal, can be obtained freely, and at worst, much, much, cheaper.

There is the spam, newsletter, and the promises of state and national domination of industry by the associations. Any time an industry association attempts to compel government to modify its policies and laws, they're actions rarely help the citizens, ease financial expenditures of citizens, business or government, and in large part, contribute to many of the problems and corruption in government that we are all dealing with today.

Having lobbyists attempt to add more bureaucracy, create more regulations, add more laws, create a new licensing division, and having an association around just to do that, isn't appealing at all.

In fact, any individual interested in a prosperous business would and should oppose the proposition of new regulation and be at odds with any proposal for new licensing fees and processes. We're not handing out social security cards, managing bank accounts (which requires no license I might add), practicing law, operating on a patient, selling stocks, preparing tax returns, cremating bodies, or selling body parts.

We simply deliver documentation to various people at various places, and do so as unbiased, uninvolved, third parties. Our deliveries don't even constitute a HAZMAT classification. We're even exempt from the DOT's requirement for couriers to have commercial insurance.

That's it. It's pretty simple. Regardless of what some ego's may have convinced themselves of, this profession has never required a doctorate's degree to enter into, and that's for a reason. We're not officers of the law. We're not public employees. With few exceptions, everything we handle is public record and that which isn't, is generally pretty boring in nature and doesn't possess any Top Secret information that is so confidential we should require FBI approval simply to be near it.

With regard to legislation, I haven't read any reference to legislation that has passed or is proposed, that had or offers any real substance or longevity of effect to process servers, messengers in general, or even for private investigators.

With regard to the trespassing, that didn't change anything other than create an "Affirmative Defense." Which, as a matter of law, has little significance. Trespassing is trespassing. The incident that caused the topic to be debated was most likely a bad arrest and charge. Though, we don't have law enforcement powers. Nobody serving papers should ever interpret themselves to be entitled to hop fences, sneak around in people's back yards, or otherwise do that which any other citizen is prohibited from doing by law. If there's a no trespassing sign, it's reasonable to conclude that you should be cautious because the owner of the property is clearly cautious and may be apprehensive, or worse.

All the affirmative defense does is provide you the ability to explain to a court or jury why you broke the law, and hope that they decide to let you off the hook because of your explanation.

That in no way bars you from facing arrest, charges, or conviction. Any assertion to the contrary is preposterous. If you break the law as a process server, you may be held accountable for your actions just as any other citizen. We do not have immunity.

Then there's the prohibition on Sundays and court holidays. I suppose the prohibition was a little inconvenient at times. Aside from the ridiculous government holidays, Thanksgiving and Christmas is always a time when you'd expect to catch people at home.

However, I don't know how many process servers spend their holidays away from their family so that they can serve papers and more so, I seriously question the numbers of successful serves on the holidays as many aren't home on the holidays.

Even if every subject of the serve stayed home on the holidays just to accept service, how much of a difference does the few days a year equate to at the end of the year? Maybe a few more dollars if you're working on a contingency fee, (which is nearly unheard of).

There's the Auto Tort thing. That's mind boggling in and of itself. It's a logical adjustment to the way the law sat, however, who does it benefit? Not process servers.

It benefits the insurance companies, bonding companies, perhaps collection agencies, general public, and lawyers. So, bravo. That is certainly worthy of a pat on the back and because of its shear and obvious logic and simplicity, it undoubtedly gained the support and approval of its reviewers. Most likely the bar association for that matter.

Though, it's hardly an accomplishment that creates any real draw to an association and one that process servers shrug at, as it didn't translate into a tangible difference to them monetarily or regulatorally.

Sure, the border thing. Yeah, there's a great idea (cough, cough, choke). In the State of Washington, with few regional exceptions, the only areas that are commercially effected by an open border or closed border status, is Vancouver and Spokane. One could argue that Spokane really isn't effected at all, as the population of Western Idaho along the Washington border currently sits at about 18 humans, 24 hawks, 2 crows, a coyote, and 800 rattle snakes.

This was retaliatory legislation that arose from Oregon having a closed border and the two local businesses registered with the WSPSA, being concerned about an estimated amount of business that they may be losing to Oregon process servers.

Both states are wrong in this instance and the concept of a closed border being beneficial for either state is lacking in merit. The closed border situation effects the independent operator (the sole proprietor and the ma' and pa') much more than the medium sized businesses and larger companies, as the individual is dependent upon doing all of the serves themselves. Whereas the larger companies simply hire Oregon contractors to do their Oregon serves, and Oregon companies hire Washington contractors to do their Washington serves.

Which makes the whole issue moot. As its going to business will be business as usual regardless. In nearly every instance of commerce, closed borders have failed to benefit the state imposing such restrictions. In many cases, increasing costs to consumers and businesses, and causing bordering states to pass reflective legislation, thereby strengthening the other states position and reducing the likelihood of the first state reconsidering its position and removing its prohibitive restrictions legislatively.

Other than that, what do we have. Hmmm...

An 'association,' that requires approval to join.

An 'association' that charges a membership fee (one more bill to pay) and offers nothing of measurable significance.

An 'association' that desires an expansion of the court system or of a state agency to implement a new licensing system for process servers (one more bill to pay).

An 'association' that wants everybody to pay the government to be able to deliver paperwork.

An 'association' that clearly is ran by the largest companies in the state and our competitors.

An 'association' that seems to be out of touch with the small business operator as the association desires and unregulated business (for a reason), to become regulated. Therefore, costing our state more, costing our businesses more, costing our employees and contractors more, expanding government personnel and processes and costing not only our state government more money by doing so, but the citizens of the state as well. And the support such a narrow-minded proposal in the worst economic crisis in our state history, and the second worst in our nation's history.

I don't think I will be joining any time soon. And now that it's been disclosed that there's less then twelve people or so in the entire state who have joined, I don't think there's anything to consider. A business that has a 12 person or less member count, is out of business. Period.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see the association going anywhere. I don't think the old dogs that run it along with their large companies, are going to let the potential power of having an association slip through their fingers. They'll keep it going so that they can tinker here and there.

As for the rest of us, I think a majority of us are focused on trying to meet our goals for tomorrow, the week, and hopefully makes ends meet by the end of the month.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#10202011082837PMDOM3RF.htm Thu, 20 Oct 2011 04:34:28 PM -0500 Cammy Sales Tax and Process Servers
Per the Washington State Department of Revenue:

"Services that are primarily the result of human effort performed in response to a customer request are not considered DAS."

Reference: { Link }]]>
Per the Washington State Department of Revenue:

"Services that are primarily the result of human effort performed in response to a customer request are not considered DAS."

Reference: { Link }]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/09132009091829PMRMU73N.htm?opendocument&comments#10202011043428PMDOMTB4.htm Thu, 20 Oct 2011 04:26:34 PM -0500 Cammy Another One of My Servers Assaulted
United States Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 73,SS 1501. Its a federal, felonious offense.

"Whoever knowingly and willfully obstructs, resists, or opposes any officer of the United States, or other person duly authorized, in serving, or attempting to serve or execute, any legal or judicial writ or process of any court of the United States, or United States magistrate judge; or

Whoever assaults, beats, or wounds any officer or other person duly authorized, knowing him to be such officer, or other person so duly authorized, in serving or executing any such writ, rule, order, process, warrant, or other legal or judicial writ or process—

Shall, except as otherwise provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."

I know this State always leans towards the greatest extremity, and I certainly don't want to be assaulted either, but, the guy just got punched. Its not like he was stabbed. What do we really want here? Would a 40 year sentence suffice? Would that make it all better? Or perhaps we could make it a one strike your out offense if you assault a process server ... (cough, cough) or a bus driver for that matter.

Honestly, with the exception of civil servants and public officials, I think they ought to remove all of the employee classes from the RCW. 4th degree assault is 4th degree assault. The job title of the person assaulted doesn't change the action in which they are accused of committing. If convicted, restitution will be ordered and one's right to civil action is always preserved. Seems like common sense.]]>
United States Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 73,SS 1501. Its a federal, felonious offense.

"Whoever knowingly and willfully obstructs, resists, or opposes any officer of the United States, or other person duly authorized, in serving, or attempting to serve or execute, any legal or judicial writ or process of any court of the United States, or United States magistrate judge; or

Whoever assaults, beats, or wounds any officer or other person duly authorized, knowing him to be such officer, or other person so duly authorized, in serving or executing any such writ, rule, order, process, warrant, or other legal or judicial writ or process—

Shall, except as otherwise provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."

I know this State always leans towards the greatest extremity, and I certainly don't want to be assaulted either, but, the guy just got punched. Its not like he was stabbed. What do we really want here? Would a 40 year sentence suffice? Would that make it all better? Or perhaps we could make it a one strike your out offense if you assault a process server ... (cough, cough) or a bus driver for that matter.

Honestly, with the exception of civil servants and public officials, I think they ought to remove all of the employee classes from the RCW. 4th degree assault is 4th degree assault. The job title of the person assaulted doesn't change the action in which they are accused of committing. If convicted, restitution will be ordered and one's right to civil action is always preserved. Seems like common sense.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/another-one-of-my-servers-assaulted.htm?opendocument&comments#10202011042634PMDOMT66.htm Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:35:04 AM -0500 Robin Mullins Sales Tax and Process Servers http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/09132009091829PMRMU73N.htm?opendocument&comments#10112011083504AMDOMHXG.htm Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:19:22 PM -0500 Theresa Sales Tax and Process Servers http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/09132009091829PMRMU73N.htm?opendocument&comments#10102011101922PMDOM5WN.htm Thu, 6 Oct 2011 06:59:11 PM -0500 Paul Jimenez Another One of My Servers Assaulted http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/another-one-of-my-servers-assaulted.htm?opendocument&comments#10062011065911PMDOMW5J.htm Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:31:36 PM -0500 Eric Duerst Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
Eric Duerst

Former WSPSA Member]]>
Eric Duerst

Former WSPSA Member]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08312011063136PMDOMVLC.htm Thu, 25 Aug 2011 01:58:45 PM -0500 Robb with Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
Talk of the WSPSA not existing any longer disturbs me greatly. I wonder why it would just vanish. Not only do we need to determine if the WSPSA is viable but we need to determine what it is viable for. What is its purpose? Is the association capable of or responsible for changing the industry as we know it? Or was the association founded as a way to defend our industry and that of its members? Is the WSPSA not capable of existing or not capable of existing under its current structure/budget?

I am a proud member of the WSPSA and I don't want to see it die. I have been an active board member for many years, but I am ashamed to say I have missed multiple board meetings this year...in a year that has proven very important to the industry. I plan on changing that this upcoming year.

I am confident there are still enough members to keep the association viable. Maybe not on the same scale or with the same purpose, but so long as we hold to our core values the association can continue on.]]>
Talk of the WSPSA not existing any longer disturbs me greatly. I wonder why it would just vanish. Not only do we need to determine if the WSPSA is viable but we need to determine what it is viable for. What is its purpose? Is the association capable of or responsible for changing the industry as we know it? Or was the association founded as a way to defend our industry and that of its members? Is the WSPSA not capable of existing or not capable of existing under its current structure/budget?

I am a proud member of the WSPSA and I don't want to see it die. I have been an active board member for many years, but I am ashamed to say I have missed multiple board meetings this year...in a year that has proven very important to the industry. I plan on changing that this upcoming year.

I am confident there are still enough members to keep the association viable. Maybe not on the same scale or with the same purpose, but so long as we hold to our core values the association can continue on.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08252011015845PMDOMQ9S.htm Thu, 25 Aug 2011 12:29:26 AM -0500 Daphne Church Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
I read your post and the first thing it did was to undermine my confidence in the WSPSA. I was unaware of the lack of interest in the association as I have just rejoined the association and have not been involved.

After giving it some thought I was struck by the fact that I have to take part of the blame. I did not renew my membership due to the monetary restrictions of my company. That was a hard decision for me as I was always very proud of my association with the WSPSA. When I was in a position to rejoin I was trying to decide if it would be better for my company to go with NAPS or WSPSA as you can see I choose to go with WSPSA. Why? Because it is a support system for my company and a place to get the continuing education I need for my company.

I understand the importance of getting process servers licensed and it is way over due. I understand how lucrative it will be for all of us in this industry. I understand the importance of e-serving and how devastating that could be for the industry and for each of our companies. I understand the importance of closing our borders and how it will benefit every process server in Washington.

I also understand The WSPSA is the driving force behind all of this. I also understand without the WSPSA our industry will not only stop progressing but will undoubtedly recede into a state of decline we may not be able to pull back out of.

I will attend the meeting at the conference and all others. I will help out any way I can. I am a member of the WSPSA.

Daphne Church

Island Runners]]>
I read your post and the first thing it did was to undermine my confidence in the WSPSA. I was unaware of the lack of interest in the association as I have just rejoined the association and have not been involved.

After giving it some thought I was struck by the fact that I have to take part of the blame. I did not renew my membership due to the monetary restrictions of my company. That was a hard decision for me as I was always very proud of my association with the WSPSA. When I was in a position to rejoin I was trying to decide if it would be better for my company to go with NAPS or WSPSA as you can see I choose to go with WSPSA. Why? Because it is a support system for my company and a place to get the continuing education I need for my company.

I understand the importance of getting process servers licensed and it is way over due. I understand how lucrative it will be for all of us in this industry. I understand the importance of e-serving and how devastating that could be for the industry and for each of our companies. I understand the importance of closing our borders and how it will benefit every process server in Washington.

I also understand The WSPSA is the driving force behind all of this. I also understand without the WSPSA our industry will not only stop progressing but will undoubtedly recede into a state of decline we may not be able to pull back out of.

I will attend the meeting at the conference and all others. I will help out any way I can. I am a member of the WSPSA.

Daphne Church

Island Runners]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08252011122926AMDOM8FX.htm Wed, 24 Aug 2011 07:00:20 PM -0500 Robert C. Zornes Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
Look around you and see how many people are literally too lazy to signal their turns while driving. Or too lazy to fill out a ballot when they are voting for the represenatatives that will formulate some of the most important legislation for their future lives.

Frankly, the reason organizations continue to exist is because of people like YOU. YOU are the person that drafted that auto tort legislation to which YOU refer. YOU have been the person to travel from practically the Canadian border to the state capitol to testify on behalf of "the people" on many, many occasions. YOU are the person that continues to trumpet the necessity of having notice and opportunity to provide legitimate access to the rights for respondent's and defendant's "day in court". It is YOU who is so passionate about this industry and it is because YOU and people like YOU that others are willing to rest .... or never participate at all (the more general case). That is the state of affairs, always has been the state of affairs and always will be the state of affairs until it becomes too late for people like YOU to make a difference, despite YOUR whole being supporting the process.

I share your frustration. Truly, I do, having been there and done that for WSPSA and now for other organizations.

I don't know the answer, Robin. But I do know that even though you and I have occasionally disagreed, nobody I know has ever doubted YOUR commitment. Maybe it's time to take some time for YOU and your new wife to start enjoying life together except that this industry is your passion.

I wish you good luck, my friend.]]>
Look around you and see how many people are literally too lazy to signal their turns while driving. Or too lazy to fill out a ballot when they are voting for the represenatatives that will formulate some of the most important legislation for their future lives.

Frankly, the reason organizations continue to exist is because of people like YOU. YOU are the person that drafted that auto tort legislation to which YOU refer. YOU have been the person to travel from practically the Canadian border to the state capitol to testify on behalf of "the people" on many, many occasions. YOU are the person that continues to trumpet the necessity of having notice and opportunity to provide legitimate access to the rights for respondent's and defendant's "day in court". It is YOU who is so passionate about this industry and it is because YOU and people like YOU that others are willing to rest .... or never participate at all (the more general case). That is the state of affairs, always has been the state of affairs and always will be the state of affairs until it becomes too late for people like YOU to make a difference, despite YOUR whole being supporting the process.

I share your frustration. Truly, I do, having been there and done that for WSPSA and now for other organizations.

I don't know the answer, Robin. But I do know that even though you and I have occasionally disagreed, nobody I know has ever doubted YOUR commitment. Maybe it's time to take some time for YOU and your new wife to start enjoying life together except that this industry is your passion.

I wish you good luck, my friend.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08242011070020PMDOM229.htm Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:56:43 PM -0500 Linda Duralia Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
Here is an example. If someone nominated me ( a new person ) for a position and nobody ran against me I would get the position. But lets say if Robb with was running against me he would get the position. Robb has held that position many times but he will end up with that position because his friends will vote for him. Instead of voting "new blood" in you end up with the same people. You have to engage new people.

Sometimes WSPSA comes across as a "Good Old Boys Club."

I am not saying this is only reason that WSPSA is not doing well but it sure doesn't help.

Thats my thoughts.]]>
Here is an example. If someone nominated me ( a new person ) for a position and nobody ran against me I would get the position. But lets say if Robb with was running against me he would get the position. Robb has held that position many times but he will end up with that position because his friends will vote for him. Instead of voting "new blood" in you end up with the same people. You have to engage new people.

Sometimes WSPSA comes across as a "Good Old Boys Club."

I am not saying this is only reason that WSPSA is not doing well but it sure doesn't help.

Thats my thoughts.]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08242011065643PMDOMW3Z.htm Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:19:43 PM -0500 Scott Herberg Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization? http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08242011061943PMDOMVCV.htm Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:33:13 PM -0500 Randy Bennett Is WSPSA Still Viable as an Organization?
Perfect Post, I would assume at this years conference a big topic will be the realization that this could be it for the WSPSA. Without ACTIVE and ENGAGED members the organization does not exist. Many people I have talked with like the outcomes of the changes in the laws you outlined above but do not seem to be ready to offer time, energy and input to help move future legislation forward to make more positive change happen.

Randy]]>
Perfect Post, I would assume at this years conference a big topic will be the realization that this could be it for the WSPSA. Without ACTIVE and ENGAGED members the organization does not exist. Many people I have talked with like the outcomes of the changes in the laws you outlined above but do not seem to be ready to offer time, energy and input to help move future legislation forward to make more positive change happen.

Randy]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/is-wspsa-still-viable-as-an-organization.htm?opendocument&comments#08242011013313PMDOMPRU.htm Fri, 12 Aug 2011 02:51:17 PM -0500 Mark Adams Another One of My Servers Assaulted
Sorry to hear a server got attacked.

Mark Adams]]>
Sorry to hear a server got attacked.

Mark Adams]]> http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/another-one-of-my-servers-assaulted.htm?opendocument&comments#08122011025117PMDOMRAL.htm Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:07:51 PM -0500 Robert C. Zornes Process Servers Part of the Problem - From the Seattle PI Dated July 18, 2011 http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/process-servers-part-of-the-problem.htm?opendocument&comments#08022011120751PMDOMN4G.htm Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:04:49 PM -0500 Robert C. Zornes Process Servers Part of the Problem - From the Seattle PI Dated July 18, 2011 http://www.4thcorner.com/4thcorner/WebSite/C4PSE_QA.nsf/dx/process-servers-part-of-the-problem.htm?opendocument&comments#08022011120449PMDOMN2K.htm